Key items from the March 10, 2003 City Council meeting included progress on the Oaks Lodge project (June 14 dedication planned; exterior brickwork largely complete; reference to the Oaks site), and planning for a NorCal Mountain Bike State Championship on May 4 with substantial regional coordination; BMX/MTB events were outlined with safety emphasis and no new trails. Old business item 212 Nevada Street appeal was withdrawn. Infrastructure discussions focused on the Soaring Water System (roughly $2–4 million, ~10% design complete, potential USDA grant) and housing-element/regulatory compliance led by Kennedy Jenks, with funding options including about $1.5 million in borrowing and potential rate increases. The sewer plan addresses illegal second units, wetlands issues, and a proposed gravity-fed line from Gold Flat Industrial Park to Go Flat Road with Caltrans funding and some private pumping arrangements. Nevada City’s state-mandated LAFCO inventory, water-model work, and housing-element updates (public hearings and December submission) were noted, along with administrative steps (Resolution 2003-04) and next actions.

Full Transcript of the Video:

>> City Council meeting of Monday, March 10th, 2003.

Will all please rise and join me in the pledge of allegiance.

>> I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

>> Okay, first item is approval of the minutes of February 24th, 2003.

>> So moved.

>> Second.

>> All right.

All those in favor?
>> Aye.

>> Aye.

>> Committee, council member reports.

Anything from Steve, you have anything?
>> Well, it's a shock issue.

This becomes a great shock.

You better be ready, Chuck.

I actually have something to report tonight.

I've been reading your webpage.

You've been giving me a bad time on this one.

Is that the only reason you're reporting?
>> Just so you won't give me a bad time for a while, yeah.

I figure I'll get a couple of weeks' breathing room after this.

No, actually, we do have an announcement to make tonight that is of some significance.

That's the dedication date of the building.

Yeah.

And the dedication -- I'm going to cut to the chase, and then I'll backtrack very slightly.

But to cut to the chase, the dedication date will be June 14th.

That's a Saturday.

It'll be in the evening.

It's a Saturday before the night for the bicycle race.

And it's going to be that evening.

It would appear that Friar Tux will be open some few days or so prior to that.

I talked to Greg this evening, and he certainly anticipates being open before that time, but that's fine.

And apparently, the county is going to be taking occupancy about that time.

To backtrack, June 14th seemed to be a good date because it was June 14th, 1913, that the building was originally dedicated, the first building by the Oaks.

They had occupied it earlier, but they wanted to have a party, and they wanted good weather.

So they decided to wait until June to have a party.

I remind -- I told Greg that this evening, and he said nothing changes in Nevada City, so by doing it in June, we'll have the good weather.

But it will be exactly 90 years to the day of the dedication of the original Oaks Lodge.

So I will be next meeting, and probably the one after that, we have a committee that's been kind of put together for purposes of throwing a party.

That's the whole purpose of a dedication, is to have a party.

And certainly we'll want to work, and I'm glad Wayne's here tonight, because certainly we want to work through the chamber, but I think it'd be simpler if we make it a city street closure, rather than a chamber street closure.

And that then allows three of us at this table to participate, otherwise -- all five of us, rather, to participate.

Otherwise, special events with chamber street closings winds up three of us abstaining.

So in order to get everybody involved, it would be a pretty simple thing to do.

So I'll be reporting back at the next meeting with more specific plans about Saturday, June 14th.

But that'll be the dedication.

Steve, is it still going to be preferred to as the old Oaks building?
I mean, some things never change, right?
I think it should be referred to as the site of the former Oaks building.

All right.

Thanks, Steve.

That's good to hear.

Good news.

Finally, now we have something to aim for, and we can start to work toward that evening.

Conley, do you have anything up on that?
Yes.

As you can see, the exterior brick is up about two-thirds to three-quarters up on the exterior of both the commercial and the Pine Street sides.

All the exterior window frames have been installed, and today they started actually to glaze the windows, put the glass in the windows.

And this is very important because just as soon as they get that glass in, they can start drywall.

They have most of the metal studs for all the interior partitions for both the fire tuck space, the second floor for the probation department.

If you walk through there, it looks like a rat's maze of metal studs.

As soon as they get that glazing in, they can start drywall-ing, and then things are really going to start rushing to completion.

So it's going great.

Wow.

Boy, everything's moving along.

Oh, and you may have noticed they have these giant cranes in there.

This last week, they were installing all the air conditioning units on the roof.

You may have seen those big units sticking up in the air.

It's a big crane.

Big crane.

Okay.

So they burned on the 20th of March, right?
That's correct.

So it'll be about a year, a month, and about two to three weeks.

Yeah.

And what's even more eerie about this is that the Elks purchased that building, purchased that property in 1913, or 1912 rather, in March 22nd of 1912, was when they purchased the two buildings, the hardware store and the shoe store that were there.

They had an option in January, and then they acquired it on the 22nd, and they made a decision that night that they would build their large building there.

And you and I, on the 22nd of March of last year, stood on the back of the old theater, and you said, "Steve, I know how much you'd like to restore buildings, but this one's not going to be restored.

"
And that was March 22nd.

So it is kind of eerie.

Also, June 14th of 1913 was a Saturday night.

Bill was there at that time as well.

Oh, well.

Bill was the bar back.

I have no comment.

And Lori played the trumpet that night.

All right.

Department reports.

Mr.
Mayor, if I may, would you like to move the new business item H2 to.

.

.

Got a department report?
Yeah, I think so.

We have two representatives from the community here.

Okay.

So H2.

.

.

Jessica Gunther-Rodgers of Dwayne Strawser.

We could probably do H1 rather quickly.

And so, all right.

So, Jessica Gunther-Rodgers, you want to go ahead and come to the mic or come to the table?
Either one.

You're going tables good if you want to sit down.

I'm going to go to the mic.

You've got Dwayne up there too.

I'm Jessica.

And I am.

.

.

You probably want to talk into the mic.

They won't hear you behind.

Is that better?
Yeah.

Okay.

Sounds better.

Better.

Somewhat.

I'm proposing on May 4th of this year to host the 2003 NorCal High School Mountain Bike State Championships.

I can give you a little bit of a background of what it is and what it's all about, if you like me to do that.

The NorCal High School Mountain Bike Racing League is in its third full year.

It's a league that was designed by a teacher from Berkeley High for Northern California to promote the sport of cycling, specifically mountain biking, and to encourage juniors, meaning kids of the age of 18 and under, to be able to race, to offer a venue for them to be competitive within themselves through the high schools, just like you would have a basketball team or a downhill skiing team or something like that.

So it's in its third year this year.

The season's already underway.

And for three years now, this being the third year, we hold a state championship, specifically for the high school kids at the end of their season.

Every race throughout the season is part of a larger race where adults can race, et cetera.

But we like to be able to give the kids a highlighted venue for themselves to be able to compete against each other.

So the first year was held up at Eagle Mountain Resort.

Last year, I promoted and organized it at Domaine Shenandoah in a winery vineyard in Napa.

And this year, I'm proposing to have it at the old airport.

Nevada Union, hey, has been the reigning state championships for the last two years.

So in some ways, we're kind of utilizing this as a giving NU the opportunity to host the state championships to defend their title.

And it's just a great area for mountain biking.

So we want to be able to highlight that as well and for the tourist industry.

So Sunday, May 4th is the date.

We would like to hold it at the old airport property using the existing trail systems that are already there.

And only within the old airport property, we don't intend to use any of the private property that surrounds the old airport.

We're expecting around-- the league has grown over the last three years.

So we're expecting around 100 kids to be racing and about 60, maybe as much as 75 spectators, primarily parents and friends of the kids, and then about 20 to 25 volunteers.

So it's not going to be a large race.

Total numbers, including volunteer staff, spectators, probably under 200, I would assume.

And it would just be held that day, Sunday, May 4th.

It would start around 9 o'clock in the morning, and the race would be done.

And we would be breaking down by 3 o'clock that afternoon.

We are already pursuing getting coverage through USA Cycling.

Their insurance has a minimum of a million dollar policy, which I've gotten every year that we've put on an event.

And so that's-- getting insurance through them is not a problem whatsoever.

It's the same insurance that covers the Nevada City Classic that Dwayne puts on.

So it's identical to that.

We won't allow camping.

No overnight camping the night before or the night of the event.

No parking outside the parking lot that the venue will be in, which is kind of where the BMX track is currently.

And then included in what I sent was an example of a letter that we're sending to all the private landowners, just so that they're aware that the event is going to be going on.

And then, of course, working with the fire department, the police department.

We'll have medical on site.

We'll have porta-potties on site.

We'll have a waste trash removal service of some sort organized there.

Rich Looney, who holds the BMX races, is fully supportive and willing to work with us as well.

So that's my proposal.

I've been working with events for at least five years.

I work with events from anything as small as this, 100 kids to events the size of Seattle Classic, which is 10,000 athletes over a four-day weekend.

So I'm very experienced with it.

Dylangrad Hant, who also wasn't able to be here tonight, but he will be helping with the event organizing and promoting, he was a junior racer ranked third in the nation at one point.

I think he was 14 years old at that time.

Has also been involved in event organization and promotion.

So the two of us will be putting the event on together.

Jessica, on the course, is this something that is, you said the existing trail.

So basically, other than marking the trail or marking the course, you're not going to have to run a bulldozer or cut anything or re-arrange the terrain.

In order to make it safe enough for the kids, if there are weeds that are overgrowing a trail or if there's a downed tree, that might be something we would want to look at.

I would certainly be willing to go out onto the course and walk with the staff or something like that, just to ensure that we're not touching anything that doesn't need to be touched.

We will not be making any new trail systems.

There won't be any bulldozing or making big berms or jumps on the trail or anything like that, because the safety is really important.

We just want to make sure that there isn't anything obstructing the trail that's going to affect that.

You've been able to meet with all the staff yet?
Not yet.

You're going to meet with them?
Going to be.

You're going to meet with them?
Yeah.

Police chiefs in the back.

And I met them before the meeting.

He will be a critical one.

Jessica, you call this the NorCal High School State Championship.

We say state championship, does that encompass the entire state?
Northern California.

Northern California, which roughly, how many schools?
There's about 15 schools.

15 schools?
Yeah, several from the Bay Area.

As far south as Monterey, Nevada Union, schools from Rocklin, some from further up north, but not as many.

It's more kind of the I-80 strip where there's a higher population.

Those are most of the schools that are involved.

And some of the teams, like the NU team, is as large as 15, 18 kids.

Some of the teams only consist of two or three kids, but they're all organized through their schools.

Your letter of March the 4th, where you projected the racing event should consist of approximately 75 spectators, I would hope that you get at least that many just supporting in you.

Yeah.

I think you're drastically underestimating the amount of people that would attend this event, because it sounds like a very exciting thing.

It is a very exciting thing.

I think you're talking about hundreds, several hundreds of people coming here.

And Lou, I would hope you would have some way of handling the traffic in and out on the whole airport.

Have you had a chance to review this, Lou?
I think we're going to talk later.

Yeah, because I think you're talking about hundreds and hundreds of, hopefully hundreds of people attending this event.

The 75 I'm basing on the last two years.

Granted, it hasn't been in the hometown of the reigning champions.

But that's a larger estimate than what we had last year.

We had about 50 to 60 spectators at last year's event at the main shandong.

And again, primarily the parents of the children of the high school kids who were driving their kids, or friends, or family, extended family, and that sort of thing.

I would agree with you that it could potentially be much larger, because it's here, that just surrounding the community.

Because Nevada City drives 5,000 people for a Mardi Gras.

I think the main shandong would have a hard time doing that.

So I think you've got to get a big reaction.

Now, on the bike race, you can walk the course.

That's not going to be the case here.

So it is kind of limited to what spectators.

It's a much different, a mountain bike course is much different.

The way that we're looking at the course right now is you'll have the central venue where the start/finish will be.

And the race will sort of cloverleaf, so it'll kind of go out for a loop, and then come through the venue, go out for another loop, come through the venue.

So almost all of the concentration of spectators will be at that start/finish point.

There's not a lot of opportunity to walk out on the course and watch from different points.

So it is much more limited that way than the downtown races.

Well, unless mountain biking has changed, and I used to race at my age bracket back in the '80s, all over Northern California, and also used to do similar to what you did where I was one of the main producers for shirts and banners and things, like "Mameth" and all the first big mountain bike races and trials races.

There are different kind of events in the Nevada City bike race or any other kind of event.

These are things where it takes the real diehards to go to them.

And unlike this, this is being a high school race, is even different than a Norba race, where these are nationally sanctioned mountain bike races, where even at those races, you don't get huge crowds except for the very, very popular places like Mammoth or something like that.

So, but I think that you're, so she may have maybe 250 at the most, I would think.

It's just not something that, because the people are out there on the course, they go and you wait and then, oh, here comes someone.

You know what I mean?
It's just a different kind of beast.

It's much more of a grassroots style event.

And like David said, it's just not going to have, because it's only high school students racing, it's not adults who are going to be bringing in their families and friends as well.

It's going to be much smaller.

And that we've had the experience, and Dwayne, I think you're involved with Charlie with the dirt classic up there.

And we held that, what, two years, three years?
Three years.

We held the dirt classic up on that property.

The course is well defined.

The police chief knows what the drill is and what will be expected of you guys.

And all the city staff, with the exception of Mark, he'll get brought up to speed in a hurry.

But with the exception of the city manager, all of the city staff has been through this drill in the past on that property.

Would the chair entertain a motion?
I had one more question.

Sure.

I know that there's no actual fee schedule for something like this, but that's something that staff would work out with Jessica.

Yeah, I think we would.

There's a shortage of events for teenagers in this community.

I think it would be good for us to support this event.

And it ties in with our bike race, and our famous bike race in town.

And I think if we would cover our costs, that's all that was interesting.

Exactly.

We wouldn't have any additional fees.

We'd have, of course, the insurance requirements that we require of any event.

Okay.

Well, with that then, I would move to the council to support the proposal that's before us, subject to staff's review and approval.

Second.

Any discussion?
Any further discussion?
All those in favor?
Aye.

Motion passes.

Thank you.

Thank you, Jessica.

Thanks, Wendy.

Hope to see you out there.

All right.

All right.

I hope you get a lot of people.

Yeah.

Are we going back or going to finish?
Let's go back to the wise men of waste.

Okay.

Could we perhaps make also, would it be appropriate to make an announcement regarding old business in case anybody's here for that?
Oh, sure.

That would be good.

Okay.

The appeal for 212 Nevada Street, Tamara and John Weaver, they have, what do you call it?
They've withdrawn their appeal.

They've withdrawn their appeal.

So that item is not on the agenda tonight.

That was old business, C1.

Okay.

Let's see.

Department reports, city engineer, wastewater treatment plant.

We want Jim, Bill?
You guys pushed me so far back, I forgot what I was going to say.

Oh, I know.

Memory short at this age.

I know.

I'm going to give you an update of what we're doing as far as the Soaring Water System are concerned.

And Jim Schifoni, our consultant, is partially working on the Soaring System as well as the Water System.

He's in the audience if we have a question, as well as Jim Wofford, Jim Knight tonight.

And Jim's also here, the wastewater treatment plant operator.

And I gave you a brief overview in the two memos that are included in your packet.

I'm sure you've looked at those.

Just to give you a quick overview, you know, like I've said before, this is the new regulations that have to be in compliance by 2007.

The preliminary estimates are in the $3 million range.

And before Steve Cottrell gets to me, I'll say, you know, I'll ballpark it between two and four million.

We have a 10 percent design, so we have an idea of where we are.

Now, the city manager was able to secure, tentatively through the farmer, no, through the United States Department of Agriculture, a 50 percent grant.

And also, they would be in a position to also loan money.

So if you use a $3 million figure, which I'd like to use, Steve, you'd have to borrow a million and a half, which is not an easy nut.

Okay.

So that's something that is going to take some time.

Now, when you do these sort of things, you know, you always get the question on, well, you know, is this growth inducing or whatever?
The object of this type of work is to bring the current plant as it is running into compliance.

This is not an issue of increasing capacity or changing the discharge numbers or anything like that.

None of that will change.

That's not the issue here.

The issue is coming up with a better quality effluent.

That's the bearing of the compliance with new standards.

We have been in.

Today we are in compliance and we are in compliance.

We are well in compliance.

Once in a while, we have a little problem, which Jim could speak to, but for the most part he runs the thing.

He runs a pretty tight ship over there.

And if we don't, unless we have an enormous gully washer or a big problem, that pretty much stays in play.

That will be reflected.

What we're going to do will be reflected in the environmental documents, which are being prepared now, that will be brought to you next session for your initial review.

At the same time, I want you to know that we have a 10% design, which we've met about today.

We will be going to see the state and the USDA.

We will be talking to them about our money.

We're kind of on a tight timetable because of the compliance that needs to be done and the funding.

There's funding right now.

Nowadays you need to grab onto it as much as you can.

The other item that is part of this whole picture, but really has a little bit different timetable is the P8 system.

The two gyms have worked on the P8 system without getting into great detail.

And they feel they have it under control, which will hold us until we do the full compliance work.

That is an overview of the sewer plan.

Are you saying P8 or P8?
P8, as in neutral.

Okay.

Well, I thought you were saying.

Yeah.

P8 is sometimes a little hard to control calm because of the temperature and that sort of stuff coming out of the plant.

The sewage is relatively raw.

It doesn't have a chance to age and that affects our pH.

And we add lime to the system and the lime adding facility is a little bit antiquated.

So that's the type of stuff you will be seeing.

I tell the city manager wants to say something.

Well, I'd just like to add before I turn it over to Jim Wilford and Jim Schaffoni that we met with Kennedy Jenks, our consultant today.

And they had some good news in addition to the grant funding, which all these staff members had in acquiring that grant and it's not finalized yet, but it looks good for a 50 percent grant.

But they indicated that preliminarily that we can work within the existing facilities of the plant so that we won't have to be expanding outside the boundaries.

We won't have to be putting in great new construction of equipments.

They're working at some process changes that will allow us to use the existing facility as much as possible.

And they did.

Kennedy Jenks was very complimentary of the work that Jim Wilford has done over the years there in bringing this plant to really performing as well as it is, giving the older technology that's there.

I would like to suggest that we bring this up regularly, if not every meeting, because of our timeline constraints here in front of council just to do a report from the city engineer.

Is the city manager prepared before God and country to tell us what our potential, our ability to borrow a million and a half dollars is in Nevada City?
I'll take that under study.

We've taken under study, all right.

I think it's a kind of a critical element to the equation.

We're looking at additional grants besides the 50 percent grant and that ties into such things as our high housing element approval and the state money that might be there.

There's a couple of criteria that we're going to have to bring to the council.

One is historically our rates have been lower than our sister communities.

We have a study that shows that.

They'll probably want us to get closer to compliance.

So that means probably a rate increase.

And number two is all of these funds and this sort of thing is tied to the housing element that you know that monster is going to raise its ugly head again.

So we've got to get those that kind of stuff out from under our feet.

So it's like the city manager says we've got to talk about these each time and progress the thing along because you will be in compliance by 2007 unless something changes.

They raise the bar.

You will be in compliance.

All right.

I hope there is other money then because there is no way I mean I you're the number guy but I don't know how you could divide the number of citizens the number of dwelling units in Nevada City into a million and a half or even a million dollars and tell me what that increase in rate would be.

It would be beyond the ability of people to pay and that's a huge number.

It is a large number but the state and fed agencies recognize that and they will allow 40-year payback on these items.

40?
40, 40-year payback.

So that will help us but we want to get as much grant funded as possible.

And perhaps Jim or Jim would like to talk about some other things that we're working on.

There's some changes in the way we can do the sewer service in the long run that may enable us to get additional grants for funding this.

Maybe additional funds available.

I don't know if we're at a point tonight.

Yeah it's premature.

We're talking about that.

We have to investigate it first.

Well I appreciate the the range.

Well you know this just brings up another point that we have all said yeah we need something about it and not done it as we need to get like the illegal second unit units.

Everybody needs to be paying their share and I think we're going to have to say this is what has to be done.

I mean there all these requirements from the state are now here and you know we just can't let people off.

Everyone's got to be doing their fair share.

I agree with the town.

I think this will maybe light a fuse under this issue of those potential illegal second units that are out there.

The 40, 50 whatever is out there.

But it's yeah we just raised our rates within the past year.

I believe it was 10 across the board and they go back to the citizens and say well I mean we knew then what I mean we talked about at the table that that the 10 percent was not nearly enough to meet the increased cost and the anticipated future cost.

But to come back to the citizens a year later and whatever that number becomes after all the grants even if the whole thing was wound up being 80/20 by the time we were done that's still 600,000 dollars that would have to come out of the from the fees being paid and that's a huge number for 3,000 people.

So whatever you can do in a way grants.

We need we need to look at our we need to look at our fee structure and the staff is going to begin to do that.

Don't forget we have an increase in population during the daytime that doubles the population of the city and that needs to be maybe further studied.

Jim or Jim you want to Jim or Jim or Jim and Jim.

Do you go by J1 and J2?
No the brother's Jim.

The brother's Jim?
I'm the older one.

You guys ever went to consulting business together you could call yourselves J squared.

There's already a company called J squared.

Really?
Square J's or something.

Okay let them go.

Well I don't really have a lot to add right now to what Bill's already said but we are in the process of doing some experiments at the plant to see if it's possible to use existing or slightly enlarged facilities that we already own to maybe get around building a third or a fourth new unit one of our central units you know that are going to cost millions of dollars.

It doesn't look like we will actually it doesn't look like it'll work.

It looks like we're really going to have to go for something a little bit fancier just to get to where we ought to be.

And I can only say this too that we're working to 2007 you can understand in 2007 they're going to give us some different requirements and they're not going to be easier they'll be they'll be tougher probably.

This is just what happens to everyone.

All the small treatment plants in the Sierra foothills are being hit with the same thing and it's tough for all the cities and all the utility districts that are having to comply with the new requirements.

Essentially you got to remember that when you flush your toilet somebody's going to drink it downstream and that's you know that's why.

Could you put it in a different way?
Put it in a different way but you got to understand you're up on the foothills most of the people of California live downstream from you.

Water that comes from the sewer plant goes to water plants.

But is there a point of no return of where you can only take it down to so many microns per billion of whatever particles and stuff I mean is there?
You get to a point where the quality of the you know I don't think we'd be there with current technology but potentially you could get to a point where the water going into the creek from the sewer treatment plant could be cleaner than the water coming down the creek.

And sometimes it is now in some ways but what Bill's saying I mean you could turn this our almost half a million gallons of water every day that comes through Nevada City you could turn it into distilled water if you wanted to spend enough money to do that but you know that's ridiculous.

It costs we're a small town and we all right.

You know in 1950 the quality of effluent we have today would be ridiculous.

You know what I'm saying.

Yeah.

And when what Jim's trying to say I don't want to get too technical we'll be here all night but the bottom line with our sewer plant is they have in the industry called an MCRT you'll see that written you'll probably see that written it's a mean cell residence time and what that means is the little guy that's eating up the sewer that's in the water when it's bubbling that little guy the longer he stays in residence the better the effluent will be.

Okay.

Now and because of our limitations and our temperatures and everything at the plant if we had a little bit bigger box for that guy to live in he could stay longer and we could you know accommodate.

It's not gals it's all these guys.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It could be the gal there's got to be some gal.

They're actually asexual.

Anyway that's that's where like Jim says that you know if we could get around that if we could somehow increase that time which we've got some ideas and I'm not he's not finished yet you know that that that's what our big thing is and and I don't think you have to be a wastewater engineer to understand the longer in residence the more he cleans the water the better the effluent will be end of problem.

It's not as simple as that but that's that's a lot got a lot to say about it.

I come up with something to entice us the guys to stay.

More gals.

Well then so we can look forward to the next meeting then you being back with some more more detailed report.

Yeah and we'll have environmental documents that we'll be starting to discuss them because you have to file the the necessary environmental documents even though the plant itself will be relatively undisturbed you still have to go through that process.

Well Bill you gave us some context of the 1850 and those water standards of 1950 versus today as a result of researching the history of the Elks Building came across a very interesting article from a fact from March of 1912 91 years ago this month where the chairman of the chamber of commerce sanitation committee met a man by the name of Harry Inglebright who of course later went on to be a member of U.

S.

Congress Harry Inglebright appeared before the city trustees then March of 1912 and said you know what we got a quick dump on all our garbage in the Deer Creek.

He said you it wasn't so much the ecology and the water quality but it was the stench was becoming unbearable.

So 91 years ago people in Nevada City took their daily garbage and dumped it into Deer Creek literally dumped it.

It was later than 91 years ago.

But that was what led to the garbage dump at off West Broad Street was Harry Inglebright coming that night.

Some of the original work that was done in Nevada City for the sewer lines that literally took the sewer out of town and dumped it below town so that it was out of the town was put in because of the old miners hospital not the old county hospital or the Willow Valley Road hospital because they were dumping all of their waste into the creek at that point and that was causing typhoid in the downtown area.

I mean that's how things have progressed in a very short time.

Wow.

Well I think we've got a committed design team here between Bill and Jim and Jim and our consultants and it's an aggressive timeline that we're trying to meet here but we're confident we're going to meet it so we'll keep reporting back to council.

Thank you.

All right.

Jim and Jim.

Jim do you have anything to add?
Okay update on water system study.

Okay well the water system is a little bit different.

Now at the same time as this study is going on in the water system there's some some coordination that Jim Schifoni is doing also with the wastewater treatment plant for the LAFCO.

Now we have a new state mandate once again it's this time it's administered through LAFCO where you've got to basically determine the condition of your existing utility systems and that includes you know police fire water sewer it's not only okay but we happen to be working on the water and sewer.

That's triggered a little work that we're doing on this on the water system.

Now we all know the limits of the water system I've been through it many times I don't need to belabor it tonight but you know there's always the ability to to make the water flow across town and that the pressure problem that's not new to anybody on the council or probably anybody in the audience.

That needs to be identified for the LAFCO study so that we can be in a position to either in it in the future upgrade it and or to work through the system to provide a minimum standard and that's what Jim has been attempting to do.

We have never in the past had a so-called water model that has pressures and flows in different parts of the town other than what we've been able to obtain through the fire hydrant system and that has its limitations.

So that's what we're attempting to do we're attempting to to determine the exact pressures and the ability of the water to flow at a certain area as well as the age of the system the age of a lot of the lines the valves and that sort of thing and that kind of study is what Jim is working on now and it's not really anything that you know we're not in a position to fund anything or even come with a council for recommendation as to what we're supposed to do.

This is a LAFCO exercise that has to be done by state law.

This is sort of just like an overall inventory.

Exactly.

Maybe I can enlighten you just a bit on that what LAFCO is looking for is that this the new Cortese Knox-Hirschberg Act made the LAFCO responsible to see that everything that the city says a city says that they do they do and water had never been something that anyone had to pay any attention to before but now it is and so they're at the infancy of doing this too so the more we can do to to help them and make it easier we'll probably design it more on it would be better for us so rather than balking at it we we need to do you know we have no choice anyway right we don't have a choice uh but the council could could even vote to say no we can't do it because it's a state law it's either the senate bill or I don't remember which one it is but um the the LAFCOs are required to hire a consultant to put this data together so the LAFCO has their own consultant that they fund of course the city funds a portion of LAFCO we're all aware of that but that's where that comes from and what the city is is obligated to do is to turn over as much of that data as they can generate so that the consultant can put it all together for the LAFCO and this is required of every community and every county in california so they're not alone in this no not at all rastale is in it truck is in it not a county's in it everybody's going through the same gyration this is pretty much an extension on that survey you did about six or eight months ago yeah only much more detail that's right much more detail it's it's stuff that they've recognized needs to be done and you know did you have data from that that'll help jump start this survey exactly there's a yeah we're using the uh gyms refining it gyms putting together the first time the city's ever had a water model or where you actually put the model together so you can tell i'm sorry tom oh no i was uh just gonna say the interesting part of it is in the up county area in truckee is where they have the suppliers like their districts their water district they go into two counties and now the two counties they're coming to heads as to who's going to lead the study and unfortunately down here we're can just you know we're able to go on our own and but that that's going to be a real mess up there before that up there it's a matter of there's a matter of the there's two contradictory um sentences almost in the same paragraph of who will be the lead agency and then who will be the responsible agency as far as you know your actual physical location and you're right they finally have a meeting where's the the one of those at the top of donner summit that serves serene lake serene lakes is in plaza county but the sewer system is in the vatic county right right it's a really big problem so they've mutually decided to go to court and have the court decide which one holds precedence which one of the statements and so it's going to be a definite um so that's what's going on and jim can give you more detail if anybody has any questions well yeah maybe uh honorable mayor members of the council i'm jim chafoia and consultant to the city and engineering um i've been what i've been doing is is basically inventorying the infrastructure starting with water and by inventorying what i mean is i go through and i just quantify well how many pipes do we have in the ground how long are they what's their condition um what's their diameter and that's that takes care of the distribution system and then we go on to the treatment system and we do basically the same thing there um you know pumps motors valves and everything so when we're through what we'll have is a an inventory with actual values of all these things in the field how how much depreciated they are etc uh the reason we're doing it what i mean what i'm doing with this information is it's kind of convenient because we're actually killing three birds with one stone one is it's allowing me to refine the computer model that we have that allows us to you know simulate any kind of demand conditions and tank levels or pressures in town and fire flows and all this kind of stuff and at the same time because we're we're essentially you know we're inventorying this this system we can also meet the lafco requirements because this is right along the lines of what they're asking for for the study they're doing and then the third thing is we have this government accounting standards board ruling number 34 that will play a role in the way that the city does accounting starting at the end of this fiscal year or the beginning of the next fiscal year and what we're required to do there is really just it's kind of in the public sector it's a push to for you know greater responsibility i guess greater accountability kind of analogous to to what needs to be done at enron with arthur anderson's procedures so it's it's kind of a move a push on the public sector for a more accurate depiction of actual financial condition so we're having to go through an inventory all of the infrastructure water sewer streets and get all this into the accounting system so we're pretty much done with the water system but then we have to move on to the sewer system and do it there too another benefit of doing this is that we can use this information once we have it gathered to put into the into a rate study kind of a program exactly what i was going to say there's actually a fourth benefit is right it's a yeah it's not just sounding like political spin it's that we will have actually a model that we can say this is it and this is the conditions of our water lines and this is the kind of money is going to take to right attain and keep them up and and and improve pressure and etc etc so it gives some hard facts that it's a lot easier to change this pipe this is what will happen right so it's more than just a physical so the meat potatoes the kind of thing that people can can grasp and understand yeah that's good goes more in yeah even into rates and like steve was talking about the loan well what would be the significance of taking out a loan well that would be folded into the you know to the um the other costs the ongoing o and m costs the expected replacement costs for worn out equipment down the road as well as debt service so all those things would go into the rate study but maybe a benefit to the city it may not prove to be very beneficial to the citizens well we will have the information well it might be pretty scary by the way we get it well you know having you know i want i can't deny that point however the only thing i would say to the council is you'd be telling yourself the truth oh absolutely but it might be real scary when we find out sometimes the truth hurts but it's important that we make decisions based on accurate information in the field and that is a solid benefit it's not like going to disneyland or something it's total benefit to the citizens because it gives them a true story of what the health of their of the place they live in because they've got an investment in their their real estate in their home ownership and if the infrastructure collapses then their investment is worth nothing so i think it's a great benefit to the citizens well i mean i mean we're not there yet and we're speculating on a lot of things but it may reach a point where funding this may have to be something other than fees i don't know what that might be and then it takes some creativity by whatever people are sitting at the table when the time comes but it may be a number that is simply not practical well and and that we will have to examine some other way to uh you know i i really have uh you know the state of california is currently in in a horrible financial street but that will come to pass and and you know things will change what this will do nevada city's not the only one that's going to find that there are a number of limitations a number of problems that's going to have to throw a lot of money at and what this will ultimately trigger is either some bond issues or some monies that will help to fund these because that is not going to be alone in this i mean it's going to be the same way and in you know al torus and the same way in riverside it doesn't matter i mean if you think we're alone i mean you know i mean it's gonna there's a lot of problems no matter where you are and there's not going to be the funds to take care of these things and i'm not talking about i'm not talking about increasing the ability of the of the plant to serve another subdivision or or annexing grass valley i'm talking about being able to serve the current citizens with proper flow and depression i think that ultimately it's going to be very important for the citizens to understand what it's going to cost them to stay a town of 3000 and so those numbers will be very important because that will give the citizens an opportunity to decide if they want to stay at town of 3000 because it gets more and more expensive that's right one thing we're looking at councilman control is the possibility of maybe working some kind of a what we call reclaimed water aspect into this wastewater treatment plant upgrade which means you just try to reuse some of the water the effluent water and some other purpose other you know of course it wouldn't go into any kind of health related use but what that would do is it could possibly make us eligible for other grants that could match with that 50 grant so that maybe now you know we'd be getting up into 60 70 80 and have to borrow a smaller increment so that's one avenue we're looking at i'd just like to say i'm personally i'm very glad that you guys are doing what you're doing to look at this type of thing and uh uh deserve a pat on the back let's keep on with it because i think it's very good thank you i agree i'm my only concerns are that it's going to be down the road is going to be this is going to be an even more expensive town in which to live but but to have a realistic number makes sense and well i don't think there's any way about it see you i mean well they sound like big numbers but you know when you consider that uh 600 000 if that is what it turned out to be isn't much more than one of these large houses you see around here and it is spread out over 3000 people over 40 years so it it gets small much smaller than you would think of an incremental so the city doesn't have one of these large houses to sell regulations will continue to increase the cost no matter where you live in california i'm telling you that right now it's not going to be unique to nabata city the more population you have the better you can distribute it but the higher your requirements may be too yeah it's catch 22 that's right the legislature and so forth will keep handing down these additional mandates without handing down funds to cover them it's a never-ending circle all right are we ready to move on to the city city manager thank you thank you jim and jim thanks jimmy and james handsome and in keeping manager update on housing element is that what you're ready to yes i'm i'm ready for that mr mayor i am passing out here a uh actual pass out on us i'm passing out here um after the discussion of infrastructure uh now we turn into uh perhaps a more cerebral exercise but no less important and along with kathy's participation in the infrastructure she's also been working on pulling up some of our past planning issues and trying to get those things resolved and we are now making great progress on the planning front i think and to this organization plan in front of you you see the proposed schedule or actually the schedule we're underway it is again a tight timeline december 31st is the state mandated date to have compliant housing element and we have gotten a long way the work of the general plan committee has been integrated with our documents our past documents and we had actually submitted a housing element to the state received their comments back and they had they had postponed the deadline so we had a base document to build upon we've taken the current work and the new census data which you authorized when connerly and associates of sacramento provided the census data breakdown so we are synthesizing all that together and hope to have it completed in the next few days the city attorney and myself met with the city planner to go over the the paperwork to date and we expect to bring that to the rest of the staff in the next few days and submit it to the general plan committees on march 20th and on march 25th which is just around the corner provide the complete draft document to hcd and that will start the clock running on their review period and we'll get their comments back and integrate those in our plan and hopefully we'll get it to december 31st we'll have an approved housing element wonderful december 31st by this year they've set up a mechanism this is a statewide thing right that date so all all 480 well a lot of them already have approved housing elements oh okay so they're not they don't all fold doing the same same year i think it's a five five-year catholic renewal period five-year renewal on your housing element has to be renewed every year and resubmitted for approval with all the changes that have occurred in your community made when when do we anticipate the the j and j show completing its infrastructure inventory of nevada city oh and and as a an adjunct of that question how important is that to to the housing element i i think they're really independent we have all the data we need when when uh when bill did the uh the sphere the five-year sphere of influence report that covered much of the information that we needed for the housing element and and it's good that he did that and let us get a jump on the document that we're submitting to the state that's that survey that we're talking about yeah so you you think that's that thing needs to be refined you know there's no doubt about it but you know i want to say to the council again the housing element is very important to us because funding is going to be held or missed and so you guys need to decide how you want to do that but i don't want to i don't want to scare anybody but but somehow we got to get past that bugaboo and get that done i don't know what it takes to do it but oh isn't this what's going to take is uh due diligence is repeating this whole schedule yeah right not letting anything i think you need it the way you particularly want to and we go on however you want to do that i i don't care it's great this is really good to have give us something to track i think what we could do as we go along steve is um you know they're working on this thing now uh i think we're really wonder don't we have to have it done by the end of the month for lafco or something most of the data oh this i'm not sure i don't remember either let me tell you that next time they'll be pretty close to each other yeah they should be they're going to have to be because they intertie they do they're separate but they intertie yeah okay sure yeah abby givens 11 650 banner mountain trail of question concerning the housing element may i ask who's on the committee the committee of the general plan the general plan update committee is um mayor mckay lawyer over halts uh paul cogley city planner and i've been following it as well and the um housing element committee that that's part of the same committee is that a subcommittee no it the same committee is doing the work for the same we just combined them into one committee i mean they started out two committees and it became one committee in the sense that the work they're doing was so similar the state is not requiring any updates to our general plan they're requiring updates to the housing element so that's our focus right now right so we have a meeting tomorrow morning at nine o'clock and how clear are we as a city as to what is actually required of us each subsequent year depending on whatever number we pick this year what is that formula in other words may i respond to that there's been a lot of misinformation and perhaps um over excitement about the response to housing numbers i have here right from the housing element element requirements uh the regional housing allocation needs plan which is the numbers that you saw months ago and everybody says oh my gosh how are we going to meet those numbers well those numbers and this is quoting right from the book the regional housing allocation needs plan goals are not building requirements they do not force the city to build anything at all what the state is requiring that you don't have impediments to providing a share of housing commensurate with your population they say that they are not housing unit quotas that jurisdictions must achieve within the time frame the the allocations are intended to be used by jurisdictions when updating their housing elements as the basis for assuring that adequate sites and zoning are available to accommodate at least the number of units allocated and i believe with the five-year sphere alone which is included in this we more than make up those numbers you don't have to expand your boundaries you don't have to build any houses it's a number it's an allocation as it exists jim do you have something to add on on the legal aspects of of those numbers so jenna wants to build it they're at least there and there's no impediments to keep them from building we're virtually built out as a community but we have a sphere of influence and that land in their counts to our having land available for future housing needs i've worked in communities that were completely built out and they didn't have any land to expand or they were up against other jurisdictions they had no room to expand no chance of other houses and their housing elements were approved it's just a allocation number that the state puts out there how does that how does it say assume we we adopt the housing element with the our current zoning in the town which is basically built out and we we have a five-year overlay which we've created and somebody wants to come into the city to bring a 20 lot subdivision into the city does it do they have any special privileges or does they have to still go through all of the gyration they still have to go through all of the normal process of anybody would have to do to get an approval for a subdivision it's simply that we have to have the land available to but we don't have to have the infrastructure to serve it we're not required to put the infrastructure in as part of the housing element no would we find ourselves trapped by having to annex in order to meet our housing element demands that's why i'm asking it again because i want to be sure i really understand no we do not this is a planning tool and it's a lot like lafka's planning tool um the downside to this the city if you don't have a housing element then the state will withhold funding the feds won't put the state will withholding if they don't have so it's kind of a thing you just i hope you have to jump through and give them a number and show that you're you're aware of and you've got the zoning set aside you through your sphere you know the you know or within your city limits or whatever and that if something came along came along you could potentially um service it but there's nothing saying you have to and a large thrust of this is affordable housing and the city of nevada city has done a number of uh of good measures in place to increase affordable housing numbers and i think that will be looked very favorably upon by the state and those are in our proposed housing element update those those existing ordinance changes that you've enacted yes and and will your material be available to the public before you send it in yes in fact we could get um we get any more copies of these i'll be glad to give you a copy of the schedule the whole series there's several public hearings listed what we have here is an i-10 a timeline date itinerary i don't know if you have it or not whole series of meetings that have to take place in discussions regarding that but if i understand it correctly the housing element has no effect on whether or not you annex don't annex or or process or don't you know whatever those processes don't change it's just a state mandated paper that shows that you've got a infrastructure in place a town in place and a sphere of influence in place that's the way i understand it on this um itinerary there are literally um one two three four five housing element public meetings starting april fourth all the way through november 10th if necessary so we can get you a copy of this timeline and it's going to be something that will be made very public and obviously that's prior to your sending it in as a final by the end of december it's concurrent with the state's review and their comments will come back to us and we'll be integrating their comments and the public comments into the document and you have a meeting tomorrow david you said yes that's a public meeting nine nine o'clock tomorrow morning thank you very much you're welcome okay police as i said mark it's just great to have this this is something that we can very good um do we have anything anything from lou you have anything to you have a monthly statistical report that i turned in and what i did because of uh some concerns and people wondering what was going on i added vandalism to the end and we'll track that at least for this year uh so everybody could see uh how it rises and falls and what areas they're in okay i just thought i'd stick that in there i appreciate it you're welcome thank you okay um if i might add it was nice uh chief to see some of our officers at the red light ball and participating uh in that thing i think it was very good for nevada city to have the chief and two or three officers and one of the we had then one in the honor guard so it was a okay nice situation to see made me proud all right fire um do you have anything to add or any questions i'd like to probably just say false alarms did you say okay box polls yeah i'd like to point out that we have a finance committee meeting this thursday at eight o'clock here at city hall and the primary topic topic will be the fire department and staffing options and we setting a date for the finance committee to review the entire city finances in the near future all right hearing from the public comments on items not on the agenda are welcome at this time however action or discussion by the council may not occur at this time comments are limited to three minutes is there anyone that wants to speak to anything that is not on the agenda tonight hearing that i'll close the hearing from the public correspondence doesn't look like we have any do we know that's what we're talking about okay tonight um and that looked like i just handed out the two items one that came in uh actually in support of the weavers but then the letter from them saying they'd like to be with to which rather appeal so those are the two only two items of correspondence okay um under old business um item number two sewer collection system update is that okay mark bill falcone the um i think the uh you know if you look at the paid staff at city hall there's three and uh you look at bill falcone and he comes in here as helps out as much as he can uh gibberish phoney helps out and we have of course the police and fire and wastewater and water treatment plants outside public works uh outside of the city hall but all this administrative work that you see are done basically by the three people plus the consulting engineers and i think they um in looking at your infrastructure you heard a lot of gloom and doom tonight but i think you are benefiting from outstanding efficient use of minimal resources over the past 30 40 years and uh to that end i think the the town is tackling a tough issue of failed septic tanks i know tom has been curious about progress on a few on brock road and we have some out on holloway and a few sporadically located around town and bill's been picking up these and one by one and kathy's worked out reimbursement agreements and easement agreements and each of these little projects take a lot of time but i'd like to point to that memo and if bill has anything to add to show that progress is being made on this septic tank failure issue we have in town and with the hopes of not too distant future we will be able to set a date certain when all septic tanks will have to be on city sewer and we won't have this failing problem there's there's actually and council some of you people i know steve has sat in these in years past i know some there's actually a state law that if you're in an incorporated city where sewer is available to have to hook up now it's it's kind of got a little gray area because it says if you're within 100 feet well in most cases these are not within 100 feet but there's also another clause that says well if you're not within 100 feet it's up to the city you know get you within 100 feet so this kind of stuff just doesn't go away i i'm not trying to be doom and gloom but um and you all can remember some of you can remember back in 91 we passed the resolution that everybody hooked to the city sewer it started with down there off of that same problem down there off of uh old downyville highway of which is by the way now all hooked up um and there are some other areas in town and i just thought it would be a good idea to if the council has that little memo do you have this to give you just a quick overview there's still three houses at the end of brock road we're currently in negotiation trying to get that out of our hair i believe that will work i think it will do uh two of them want on bad yeah and one they're talking to the third one yeah right i think it'll be doable they really pressure yeah right and and i'm talking to the third one also so it's one of those things that like nematocydia will eventually solve um there's a few others you know um that are even over and above these which you know happens to be at the end of girl street and different places there's still so people that are in the city that that are not hooked to the sewer right adjacent to the city or whatever and um so everybody understands what i'm talking about they're on halloway and boast avenue is probably the worst area we have in nevada city for septic system it's a nobody it's not a secret it's a it's an inundated wetlands area and we have kind of a doesn't percolate well yeah it doesn't percolate at all you know but uh i've been you know caltrans also has a wash down system and they have been actually fined by another state agency for dumping water into that ravine that actually flows down through the northern queen and out to bulgum creek um so as a result of caltrans and initially we had the hotel was going to hook up and the hotel is obviously in a holding pattern but regardless of that we still need to do corrections to the system we visited with everybody out there and we have some pretty chronic situations that's the caltrans that's the the mini mart gas station and also the love it center i've probably reported to you this before we're in the process of of working thing where with caltrans we'll actually put up the money to do it i've been asked in the past as to you know will these type of things be growth-indusive and my answer to in this particular case is this would be caltrans would be the ultimate end serving of that area anything beyond that whether it be the prospect or nursery or anything beyond that if that is to be considered in the future there is already a line that comes up through the gold flat industrial park all the way to go flat road and it would be would be prudent to serve that through that gold flat road gravity because you'd have to pump up to the caltrans to get through you have to pump up through the caltrans lot and i don't think that's at all feasible so that would be the end of the line and the last servers also we're working on martin street that there's still that section in back there which came to the council we have that on lower railroad avenue as an american hill road mine rock court is up on syroles avenue that's another one that i thought we got almost all of those don't we kathy i think we have two left we have three left on syroles but we have every single one on mine rock rather than the one on the corner plusitarian so you know we're working out of it and i don't think that i'd ask for any panic i just wanted to give you a complete sewer system and everything else well when we did the gold flat annexation wasn't there a requirement for those existing properties to hook up no when and if you had to come in with an extend the system to get to them right yeah but that thing's just getting off the ground we're just we we were able to obtain all the right-of-ways now and like i say part of the driving thing that drove us a little bit was that the hotel and it kind of went kaput or wherever it is now they're waiting and so we kind of put it on the back burner and then we had to do some negotiations with some of the owners that that wanted us to move some stuff around so we had to do quite a bit of fiddling around so it just takes time that's all well staff will bring back to these individual lines as they as construction plans yeah finalized we're going to get into design now well on the night when we did the final annexation of that gold flat area and they asked for anyone opposed to stand up and this one lady got up and she said her only worry was that we would make her hook to the sewer and you know we told her that wasn't in the plans at that point you remember who that was yes i know very well who that is exactly and we're not making her hook to the sewer now okay so i i'm already visiting with her yeah i think if we went back and reviewed the that's a transcript we would find that we told her that's a non-issue that's right so non-issue yeah that's a non-issue yeah i didn't mean to bring it up she was very adamant all of the uh the places that are noted on this memo are are able to connect to our sewer system with gravity correct i mean they're all no brock road would would be and that's part of it that's part of the reason they're not on a lot of them now the hall of way happens to be gravity but then that was recently anac but some of these other stuff like washington road like kathie said uh rock road or marca they're all they're all pumps but these will not be city pumps these will be individual pumps by the individual by the property owner maintained by the property owner and eventually of them in town the individual ones okay did you say that those two units now the old downey bill are now hooked up yes both of them yes good 107 yep could i just make one comment about 10 days ago i'm not gonna argue with our city engineer but i think he might have said something incorrect where he said that that resolution the resolution that was passed in 91 had to do with the old downey bill highway i think the genesis of it was a house that was allowed to be built on reward street that the county they stand corrected the county issued a septic a permit for it to build on septic they built we said when are you going to come to the sewer and they said oh we put in a septic tank we're not and we told the county don't you issue another permit that was that's when the that's when the call for the catholic council two doors down from it and that one is still on septic so you know we're talking among ourselves we'll bring it back i'm sure at some point to have a sunset clause when all people in nevada city within the city limits hopefully we'll you know go on sewer one of these days along with everything else the state's going to come down if we don't the state's going to mandate that everybody in nevada city will be hooked to the city shore and these failing septic tanks seem to be in the areas of wetland sensitivity environmental habitat so that's important so it's important that we get to these and there's not much more compelling than having bill falcone and kathy wilcox barnes standing next to your failing and smelling septic tank and saying it's time to hook up so when that time comes uh whatever uh mr baltz and i are doing at that time i'm sure i'm sure we will remind you there's at least one property owner gold flat for whom nevada city will probably have to pay for the line and that's fine i think we made it very clear to her that night yes we did we we will never require you to hook into our sewer system i have to stay out of this part of the discussion that was my aunt if someone she does she's on a hill on a great big parcel and we don't have to let's just go on okay moving right along i do before we move along i just because the next item is that appeal which has been tabled and we got the letter from the weavers explaining why they wanted to uh withdraw the appeal my only question is is the media been given a copy of uh the reason why because that's i think fairly important to however they report their withdrawal why why all you have to do is read the letter says uh for the benefit of you who don't have the letter it says we dropped the appeal due to the continuing threats made by our neighbor league reap i think it might be kind of central to to the report and that may be misleading because it's just the comments in a letter but i did speak to them at length and they were talking about legal threats i believe right so i don't think we should be stirring up something that's not i met with both the property owners out there and they just seemed to have a neighborhood dispatch that couldn't be resolved and so i believe they're just withdrawing their proposed or their appeal of the elaborate steroids and going back to the stairway that they had that's right and but i all i have to work on david is the letter that i have you know more than me that's fine but i think it is central to the issue i'm not trying to stir up a harness nest or you don't have to shh me any time i that's really not necessary but when someone submits a letter that said they're withdrawing because of continuing threats made by the neighbors i think it's central to the reporting and that my copy is certainly available for the media well and i think it would be only right then to have the other side of it see that same letter and and have a rebuttal to that of what they mean by threats or something how far do you go with this it's really that's that's all we have as a public document right now yeah but to merely say they withdrew their appeal there's only half of the equation all right new business resolution 2003 dash 04 move for adoption second all those in favor any announcements i think she any announcements okay move on turn second all those in favor all right can i just say one final thing go ahead it's only because we've heard we've everyone has said oh this is gloom and gloom and you know it's not i think it's just it's a realistic approach to what's going on and we need to have that and you know and if it's doom and gloom it's only because you know people don't don't want to see it that way but i think it gives us a we now know where we're going and what we're going to have to do so bill thank you and all of you so yes i'm very pleased to have a look i am too i want to misunderstand i'm very i think this is information i wanted a long time ago bill will tell you this is exactly the information i asked for as part of the sphere of influence study so wonderful we're adjourned are we then yes i'm so